Pedant
11:47 Thu May 12
Re: Did Poland win the Battle of Britan.
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Chigwell 9:48 Wed May 11
So they can fight for us, but we don't let 'em come here?
Fuck off.
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stomper
8:00 Thu May 12
Re: Did Poland win the Battle of Britan.
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The Poles and the Czechs were very good in the Battle of Britain. For some reason they were very keen on killing Germans.
To praise their work is not to denigrate anyone else's.
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Hayzer
4:10 Wed May 11
Re: Did Poland win the Battle of Britan.
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That's called a tactical retreat surface.. Not running away.. Besides his battery stayed on the ridge without any support from anyone so the krauts couldn't have been that good.
Some people just don't like being British do they.
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Chigwell
9:48 Wed May 11
Re: Did Poland win the Battle of Britan.
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Walking round Bicester town centre on an average weekday, I'd say they must have won it, because there seem to be more of them here, within a mile of the WW2 RAF base, than there are English speakers.
Vote Leave.
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afan
3:11 Wed May 11
Re: Did Poland win the Battle of Britan.
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I think radar helped the outcome, Poles were harsh to the east Prussians in the Danzig before it all kicked off , nasty human nature regardless of nationality im afraid.
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Pedant
5:25 Tue May 10
Re: Did Poland win the Battle of Britan.
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It wasn't just kill rates, but the reason for them.
The Poles were among the first to abandon the dangerous "vic" formation in favour of the 'finger 4' AND had their gun-convergence adjusted so that they got in close before firing, doing much more damage per attack.
Only a handful of RAF pilots had done that - but once they saw the Poles in action the ideas spread very quickly.
Innovation.
Pre-War the Poles were considered the best trained, but worst equipped, pilots in the world.
Repeat please.
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pdbis
5:12 Tue May 10
Re: Did Poland win the Battle of Britan.
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Must be why there seems to be swarms of them everywhere.
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plankton
4:46 Tue May 10
Re: Did Poland win the Battle of Britan.
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I rather think radar might have been the deciding factor in the Battle of Britain. Without it we wouldn't have had a chance of keeping enough aircraft in the air as the Luftwaffe would have destroyed them on the ground, piecemeal, Poles or no Poles. And we wouldn't have got the radar system going if a little Frenchman hadn't managed to escape in a little fishing boat from France with a prototype magnotron which they boffins slotted into the radar programme at Wembley - shortly after the debacle that was Dunkirk. So many little slices of luck for the allies at that time that all combined to give us the edge. We were damned lucky.
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Westside
4:32 Tue May 10
Re: Did Poland win the Battle of Britan.
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Far Cough "I still don't understand why the Spits and Hurricanes only had pea shooter .303 guns while the Luftwaffe fighters had cannons, at least in the early part of the war"
Because at the start of the war, the cannons only had 60 shots per gun, in magazines . 303's had 300 rounds per gun. Most of the British pilots were very inexperienced, especially in air to air gunnery. As most bullets/shells miss, it was more important to have as much ammo as possible. Also German plans weren't well armoured at that stage of the war, cannon shells not essential. I remember an interview with one Spitfire pilot. His entire gunnery training before the battle of Britain, was firing 60 rounds per gun at the north sea. As he pointed out, you can't very well miss the north sea.
From 1941, as soon as belt fed cannons, with greater ammunition capacity became available and British pilots were more experienced, cannon armed planes were introduced.
The 109 also had two machine guns with about 1,000 rounds each. Enough for 50 seconds of trigger time. Spitfires and Hurricanes had 15 seconds of trigger time.
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Lertie Button
4:30 Tue May 10
Re: Did Poland win the Battle of Britan.
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Worth pointing out that Sir Max Hastings among other right wing commentators believe that Poles should be treated as a special case regarding immigration because of their contribution during the war
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Brucies_Star_Prize
3:29 Tue May 10
Re: Did Poland win the Battle of Britan.
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Hermit Road 11:00 Tue May 10
"Hermit Road wrote...
Re: Did Poland win the Battle of Britan.
If pointing out that Britain entered WW2 as a result of the German invasion of Poland is disrespectful, then we need to re-write the History GCSE syllabus, retrain all our History teachers, and revise every account of how the war started."
Apologies if that wasn't in reference to my previous post, although it was a fair assumption given your use of the word 'disrespectful'.
I questioned the notion that Britain entered the war to save Poland, suggesting it was as disrespectful as the other anecdote I provided. I didn't question the events that led Britain to join the war. There is a pretty clear difference.
So either you weren't referencing my previous post (in which case I apologise) or you completely misunderstood my point.
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tricky trev
2:26 Tue May 10
Re: Did Poland win the Battle of Britan.
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Also worth noting that the Luftwaffe had blooded their pilots in the Spanish Civil War, Condor Squadron I believe.
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Hammer and Pickle
2:20 Tue May 10
Re: Did Poland win the Battle of Britan.
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"A total of 285 German aircraft were lost according to Luftwaffe records, with at least 110 victories credited to the P.11 for the loss of about 100 of their own."
But they were overrun in days...
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
2:05 Tue May 10
Re: Did Poland win the Battle of Britan.
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TT yeah, I know. They were flying something a bit better in France, though.
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tricky trev
2:01 Tue May 10
Re: Did Poland win the Battle of Britan.
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Surface agree about the experience that they had but look at what they were flying against the Germans at the time........
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PZL_P.11
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Far Cough
1:58 Tue May 10
Re: Did Poland win the Battle of Britan.
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I still don't understand why the Spits and Hurricanes only had pea shooter .303 guns while the Luftwaffe fighters had cannons, at least in the early part of the war
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
1:55 Tue May 10
Re: Did Poland win the Battle of Britan.
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TT
It would have been remarkable if the casualty rate of the Polish squadrons had not been substantially lower than average. The casualty rate amongst inexperienced aircrew in their first couple of operations was horrific - the chances of a pilot surviving any given mission increased exponentially with experience (although, of course, for the vast majority, their luck would run out eventually). In general, and as Cholo mentioned earlier, the Polish pilots were already experienced through battles on the eastern front and in France.
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tricky trev
1:50 Tue May 10
Re: Did Poland win the Battle of Britan.
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I read a couple of books on Polish contributions to the Battle of Britain and can say without them we certainly would have struggled. This is one book worth reading and the description pretty much sums it up.....
303 Squadron is the thrilling story of the celebrated squadron of Polish fighter pilots whose superb skill in the air helped save England during its most desperate hours. They were the highest-scoring Allied fighter squadron in the Battle of Britain, downing three times the average RAF score while incurring only one-third the average casualties. Dashing and gallant 303 Squadron was lionized by the British press, congratulated by the King, and adored by the British public.
http://www.amazon.com/303-Squadron-Legendary-Britain-Fighter/dp/1607720051
Polish pilots flew closer to their targets to inflict greater damage due to the poor armament in comparison to German fighters (cannons). One thing I read was they flew over downed airmen causing their parachutes to collapse. Their hatred of the Germans being understandable. The West pretty much stitched them up at the end of the war so have a lot of respect and sympathy for them. A lot of veterans went back only to be shot. Here's another worth a read.....
http://www.amazon.com/Question-Honor-Kosciuszko-Squadron-Forgotten/dp/037572625X/ref=pd_sim_14_1/181-1532648-0663217?ie=UTF8&dpID=51lzyFVhz1L&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR102%2C160_&refRID=16FKN54HQKD2ZZH3DNPG
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tricky trev
1:46 Tue May 10
Re: Did Poland win the Battle of Britan.
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I a couple of books on Polish contributions to the Battle of Britain and can say without them we certainly would have struggled. This is one book worth reading and the description pretty much sums it up.....
303 Squadron is the thrilling story of the celebrated squadron of Polish fighter pilots whose superb skill in the air helped save England during its most desperate hours. They were the highest-scoring Allied fighter squadron in the Battle of Britain, downing three times the average RAF score while incurring only one-third the average casualties. Dashing and gallant 303 Squadron was lionized by the British press, congratulated by the King, and adored by the British public.
http://www.amazon.com/303-Squadron-Legendary-Britain-Fighter/dp/1607720051
Polish pilots flew closer to their targets to inflict greater damage due to the poor armament in comparison to German fighters (cannons). One thing I read was they flew over down airplane causing their parachutes to collapse. Their hatred of the Germans being understandable. The West pretty much stitched them up at the end of the war so have a lot of respect and sympathy for them. A lot of veterans went back only to be shot. Here's another worth a read.....
http://www.amazon.com/Question-Honor-Kosciuszko-Squadron-Forgotten/dp/037572625X/ref=pd_sim_14_1/181-1532648-0663217?ie=UTF8&dpID=51lzyFVhz1L&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR102%2C160_&refRID=16FKN54HQKD2ZZH3DNPG
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
1:19 Tue May 10
Re: Did Poland win the Battle of Britan.
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Hayzer 11:49 Tue May 10
Your mate must have hated the British Army as well then, because, along with every other army engaged in WW2, they did an awful lot of 'fucking off'' themselves.
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Russ of the BML
1:12 Tue May 10
Re: Did Poland win the Battle of Britan.
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I know that there was a squadron of Polish pilots that gained huge respect within the RAF for their bravery, flying hours clocked and hits. But this was just one squadron and not sure the whole of the Polish air-force racked up more hits than the whole of the RAF in the Battle of Britain????
Anyway, does it matter? What's his point in all of this??
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